Pastor's Circle - Mark Durie

Mark Durie, vicar of St. Mary's Anglican Church in Caulfield, Victoria, Australia, joined the Pastor's Circle today to discuss weaknesses of the church in western countries.

Spiritual vulnerabilities of those of us who live in "modern" countries. What are some things that we struggle with today?

I think because we don't have a good theology of suffering. We can be used to success. And that can corrupt us.

To actually put ourselves in God's hands....is quite scary for us, if we haven't faced up to the reality of suffering and the sovereignty of God over our lives.

Is the problem that we don't have the reality of suffering?

I think that's right. We don't have to think, "If I'm a Christian today, I might be dead tomorrow."

That means it's sometimes harder to get sold out to the Lord, and easy to get caught up in little things.

If you're thinking, "If I witness Christ today...I could lose my wife, or my kids tomorrow," it makes you think more seriously about your life.

I'm not sure if I'm ready to pray for persecution. But what's the antidote to our lack of theology of suffering?

I think one thing we can do is empathize with our brothers and sisters who are suffering.

I think it's a very good thing to read the New Testament, focusing on what it says about suffering.

There's the word of God that points us there. There's the experience of other Christians.

You can read history, as well. You can read the history of how the Church has grown, and where it's come from.

You talk about not just suffering. Give it to us in a nutshell. What is our theology of success in the western Church?

Well, our theology is if you live in the right way, pray the right prayer...give to the right ministry, you will be blessed.

It's a convenient message. Because it's a way of getting people to give.

Sometimes people who struggle and face many difficulties and setbacks...are the ones God is most present with.

Blessed are those who weep. Blessed are those who mourn. I think we've lost sight of what Jesus taught there.

Everything you're saying sounds like the book of Job.

The thing about Job's friends is that everything they say sounds so plausible.

Actually, they're not speaking the truth. Job is actually wrestling with God..and is refusing to accept the message that just because he's suffering, he must be a sinner.

God is pleased with him. It's amazing, really.

God honors his integrity of clinging on to the truth.

What's something else we can move to here. What's a serious vulnerability for us in the modern evangelical world?

Maybe it's not such a  problem in the US, but it's a problem here in Australia.

There's a privacy issue.

It's not being real.

It's a lack of emotional engagement with God.

We live at a disconnected level. The reality of the message in our lives is really shot away.

That's a thing that troubles me a lot.