Interview: Shawn Carney, 40 Days for Life

Shawn Carney is the executive director of the Coalition for Life, a pro-life organization consisting of 60 churches and thousands of people. He joined The Matt Friedeman Show to promote the ongoing 40 Days for Life. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

What is 40 Days for Life?

It started as one simple campaign.  We decided to do 40 days of prayer and fasting, and as a result, the abortion numbers in that community dropped by 48%.

We've been doing it ever since. We have a fall campaign and a spring campaign. It's built on prayer, and going to the places where the abortions actually happen. 

We've had 53 abortion clinic workers have conversions and leave their jobs. We've seen a lot of people overcome that natural fear of going out to pray outside of abortion clinics. It's been a joy.

And all you're asking people to do is show up and pray?

Absolutely. I think it's been the prayerful approach that's been the success of 40 days for life. We're not there to judge the women, we're not there to yell at them. We're there to give them a better option for their baby. And we're there for the workers as well.

It's wonderful to see what God is doing. We have a record 301 cities this year. 46 of those are new, including cities in Puerto Rico, Argentina, and Germany.

You can learn more about 40 Days for Life, including how you can get involved, at their website.

Author Interview: Dr. Paul White

Dr. Paul White is a psychologist, author, speaker, and consultant who specializes in workplace relationships. He joined The Matt Friedeman Show to discuss his latest book, The Five Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace. Here are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

Does this book have any connection to The Five Love Languages?

It does. Dr. Chapman and I wrote this book together. We've been working for the past year to work the love languages around the workplace. 

We wanted to provide practical resources to help managers and coworkers relate to one another better.

How can we show appreciation in the workplace?

There's a big issue going on right now in that over 65% of people say they haven't heard any appreciation in the last six months, whereas managers say they're making efforts to affirm them. The messages that are being sent aren't getting there.

Different elements have to be there in order for people to feel appreciated. The five love languages in the workplace have the same names; Words of Affirmation, Quality Time, Gifts, Acts of Service, and Physical Touch.

We've developed an inventory that goes along with the book, so people can find out what their languages are. We then get that to their supervisor so they can take that information and use it to build up the employees.

Could it be adapted for use in the church?

Absolutely. We wrote it with that in mind. We wrote a chapter on encouraging volunteers. We want to apply this to churches, to ministries, non profit organizations, to schools. We know that we can encourage and show appreciation in ways that make them feel valued.

One of the things we've done is work this in a way that doesn't cost a lot of money. What matters are just small things that let them know you care about them. If they're sports fans, get them an SEC magazine. Buy them a cup of Starbucks.

Our inventory helps specify what each person needs, so you can hit the mark and help them feel appreciated.

Does this increase job satisfaction?

Absolutely. We increase customer satisfaction. We decrease staff conflict. Employees report that they enjoy coming to work more.

To learn more about Dr. Paul White and his work, you can visit his website.

Pastor's Circle - Randy Frazee

Randy Frazee is the senior minister of Oak Hills Church in San Antonio, TX. He joined the Pastor's Circle to discuss his newest book, The Heart of the Story. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

Tell us about your book.

I think that one of the biggest drives for me to write this book is that we've discovered that biblical illiteracy is a growing epidemic among Christians. As we've gone into the 21st century, research shows that Christians are more illiterate about their faith than agnostics or atheists.

Christians often see the Bible as a set of disconnected stories. This book tries to connect the dots, so everything is connected in one overarching love story of God.

Tell us about that "overarching" story.

There's two "stories" going on with the Bible, the upper story and the lower story.

For instance, in the story of Joseph, you may get a great lesson on forgiveness, or resisting temptation. But God uses Joseph in the upper story, to save his family from famine and continue to live the plan for God's people.

This is one of the greatest applications. We are characters in God's unfolding upper story. If we align our life to that upper story, everything will come out for good.

What is the "heart of the story"?

I would say that the heart of the story is what you see in Genesis 1 and 2. God coming down and doing life in community with Adam and Eve. If you fast-forward to the end of Revelation, you again see the Tree of Life, and God coming down to live among us.

God's upper story plan is going to happen. The only question is whether we will participate with blessing or without it.

A lot of the time, the lower story gives you practical advice for the day, while the upper story gives you the long view of God's vision for us.

 You can learn more about Randy Frazee and The Heart of the Story on his website.

Author interview: John Townsend, Beyond Boundaries

Dr. John Townsend, Clinical Director for the American Association of Christian Counselors (AACC), joined The Matt Friedeman Show live from the AACC World Conference in Nashville, TN. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview about his new book Beyond Boundaries.

What is Beyond Boundaries?

A long time ago Henry Cloud and I wrote a book about the fact that sometimes you have to say no and guard your heart.

You have to do what God does, which is speak the truth in love.

The thing I'd notice, though, was that people would be able to say no, but there was a 'what now' going on. They had confusion about how to trust again in a relationship. That's what Beyond Boundaries is about.

What relationships are you talking about?

Every relationship that someone could have a difficulty in. We all encounter these "speed bumps" in relationships when someone is being hard to deal with. This book is about reconnecting, and learning to trust again.

The hardest part is to take the first risk. God is a risk-taker. He always takes the first step. He's a great model, because even when it hurts, he reaches out.

There's no way to have a better relationship unless one person is taking the risk. That's what the book is about.

What is a hurt that comes out a lot in your counseling?

There's the hurt of putting out a need and being pulled away from. If that happens in an important relationship, it is really devastating.

Then there's control. When someone says "If you love me you'll do this."

The third is judgment and condemnation. When someone is condemning or shaming someone, the other person is on eggshells all the time.

Those are the three main ones.

Is it okay to risk our health on unhealthy relationships?

Jesus said to be innocent as doves and wise as serpents.

We're supposed to be mature, but we'll always be around people with toxicity.

But you must always be guarding your heart.

Is there an element of evangelism?

There's lots of Christians that aren't healthy either. I'd say it's a both/and. There is an evangelistic element to it, but we have to help ourselves as well.

Jesus came to seek and save the lost. The best relationship we can have is to be as loving and as redemptive as we can. We are supposed to be the salt and light.

You can learn more about Dr. Townsend and his ministry here.

"All the self-help advice in the world won't help if God's not in it."

Chuck Huckaby, pastor of St. Andrew's Church in Lawrenceburg, TN, joined the Pastor's Circle to talk about his recent article on how the Church does ministry. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

You compare "kerygmatic" and "therapeutic" ministry. What are the two?

"Kerygmatic" is a greek word, and it's used to describe the preaching in the book of Acts. It's about how this blessing that was meant for Israel is calling the nations to repentance and renewal at the foot of Christ.

I'm using "therapeutic" in the dumbed-down way. When it comes to the pastor as a "therapist", it's like someone in a cardigan and a goatee, some smooth-worded preacher who's there to work you through whatever problems you have, without bringing up the Cross.

The surface things we do, the self-help advice that pastors are trained to give people, that doesn't reconcile people to Jesus Christ. Like when the hospital visit we give is just chit-chat about the football game, never getting around to the ultimate purpose of the

All the self-help advice in the world won't help if God's not in it.

What has this "therapeutic culture" done to us as the Church?

A lot of times it just makes fools of us. Maybe you have the best advice in the world about a certain problem, and either people don't listen to it or it didn't apply to the situation, and then you're the idiot pastor guy who thinks he knows everything.

What did that have to do with our calling? Our calling is to help people reconcile with Jesus Christ. We're not auditioning to be the next Oprah. We confess that there's no true help in this world, there's no true path that doesn't take God at His word.

What would happen if we kept our focus on kerygmatic ministry?

When you go to that hospital room, and you point them into union with Christ, you don't know what that's going to mean.

What it would do in the Church is that pastors at least would be taken more seriously.

[What we want] is a kerygmatic ministry that leads to true therapy. When everyone else gives up hope because their tools are exhausted, it's the Christian visitor who can point to the Christ who rose from the dead.

Pastor's Circle - Kyle Idleman

Kyle Idleman is the teaching pastor of Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, KY. He joined The Matt Friedeman Show to discuss the ideas behind his book Not A Fan. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

What's the difference between a fan and a follower?

We understand the idea of a fan as a fan of a celebrity or a sports figure. We cheer for them from the sidelines. I've seen this mentality slip into the faith.

Fan is defined as "an enthusiastic admirer". Jesus wasn't into gathering enthusiastic admirers so much.

How do we fall into becoming mere "fans"?

It's natural in the sense that we don't want to completely commit because we're afraid of what it will cost us. In romantic relationships, there are plenty of people who are afraid to go all the way in.

When it comes to a relationship with Christ, we tend to not want to go too far. That scares us. But Jesus says that when we die to ourselves, that opens us up to life.

How many Christians today are fans instead of followers?

I think there are some stats that give indications of that. If you look at statistics that talk about what people think about Jesus being the only way, or the morality of Christianity, I think it becomes clear that a lot of people are "fans". They like Jesus, but they don''t want to go all the way.

One of the things I try to do in the book is go through a list of more objective indicators. It's a hard question to ask of yourself.

One thing you suggest is taking an "honest diagnosis." What does that entail?

I think what we're talking about in that is how we measure our relationship with Christ. What I've really tried to do in the book is go through and look at different examples of how Jesus measured people. 

One example would be in John 6, when Jesus has just finished feeding the multitudes. He has lots of fans. The next morning, they go to Him for more, and he essentially tells them that the free bread line has closed. He makes them decide if He is enough.

By looking at some different examples in the Gospels, I think we can get an understanding of what we should look like.

You talk about passionate pursuit. What does that mean?

The invitations of Jesus to follow. The imagery is sometimes used of a young man courting a woman, where there is passionate pursuit. We began that journey as a family and a church family. We really began looking at what it meant to follow Jesus in that way.

Some things are more dramatic. People will write in to tell us that they sold their car to help a single mom. Some friends of ours decided to sell their business and move to the Dominican Republic to do water projects. 

Some things are more radical in nature, and other times it's just going across the street to help your neighbor. On our website, you can read testimonies about how God has been working.

What are you doing to make these disciples?

It's a big question. We want Jesus to be our model. We want to follow in His steps. His model of disciple-making was to build relationships. We try to imitate that.

We tend to want to do discipleship by way of programs and classes, and there's a place for that, but it all really needs to be about relationships. We believe that's how the multiplication process works. We want to make disciples who will make disciples.

Pastor's Circle - Albert Haase

Father Albert Haase, a Franciscan priest, came into the Pastor's Circle to talk about the Prayer of St. Francis. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview. You can learn more about  Father Haase and his ministry here.

Where did the Prayer of St. Francis come from, and what does it mean?

It is known as the "peace prayer" of St. Francis of Assisi.  It's a very famous prayer that has been used in many significant settings - funerals of important religious and political leaders, inaugurations, etc.  However, it was not even written by St. Francis himself. It had been around for quite awhile before he lived.  It was actually popularized as a product of St. Francis' pen by a protestant minister.

There are two parts to the prayer, but the key thing stands out immediately to me is the idea that we belong to someone else.  Our life belongs Jesus Christ.  

Secondly, there is a clear presentation of a biblical understanding of peace or shalom.  As people who live in the reality of Easter Sunday we need to realize and live out that shalom today.

We here at the Matt Friedeman Show think of ourselves as people that are "in the fight". In this prayer I get the idea that if we are on a mission we must be proactive.

I think you're right.  We must take love, joy, peace to the places that need it the most.  Proactive is a great way to put it.

So there is a necessary awakening...

Yes, the "Peace Prayer" also challenges our ego.  Perhaps the ego is the biggest enemy of the Christian life.  In this prayer we are going to bump up against the real issues of the heart.  Experience tells us that those people who live lives of service are the happiest people in the world.  

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace, 

Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
where there is sadness, joy;

O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.

For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

Evangelism/Discipleship Smackdown, ii

E. Stanley Jones

"I believe that the discovery of the facts, when they are facts and not half-truths, is leading in one direction and in only one direction - in the direction of Christ.  Let the scientist, therefore, begin with the facts, and let him go far enough with those facts, and he will come out at the fact of Christ.  He may not get to Christ; he may stop short; but at least his facts will be point in the direction of Christ as their fulfillment."  (Christ of the American Road, 159)

Something old

In 1675 Phillip Jacob Spener published a booklet that criticized the regular church.  Titled Pia Desideria (Heart Longings) it contained the following for overcoming the weaknesses in the church.  He prescribed the following:

1)  The more general circulation of the Scriptures, with meetings in private for a thorough study of their meaning.

2)  The improvement and faithful exercise of the pastoral office; the laity to cooperate with the pastors in edifying one another, especially by means of family religion and prayer. 

3)  The serious truth that to know is not enough in religion; practical experience must be added. 

4)  Correct relations with errorists and unbelievers; controversy in the true spirit of love, with a wish not simply to convince, but to benefit, the one opposing. 

5)  Some way of studying theology which will make students as earnest in living Christian lives as in studying their books. 

6)  Some way of preaching, which will present as the chief truth that Christianity signifies a new man, the essence of his life being faith, and its activity consisting in bringing forth good fruits.    

Something new

Lifeway:  'Unchurched adults interested in finding a congregation aren’t nearly as likely to visit one in person as a church member who is shopping for a new congregation. That means effective evangelism must begin outside the sanctuary in relationships between Christians and unbelievers, according to research from several recent studies from LifeWay Research...

"The location of our evangelism needs to shift if we want to reach the unchurched and not just move sheep around," said Ed Stetzer, director of LifeWay Research. "At LifeWay Research we want to encourage churches to grow through conversion. To do that, they must not rely only of the unchurched visiting our churches. Church switchers are primarily the ones who visit churches. The unchurched stay home...

"So, if you build your outreach on recruiting and reaching church visitors you will often build a church on church switchers," he said.

Stetzer continued, "For several decades we have focused on come and see, invest and invite, bring your friends to church by attracting them with a great program. We call that attractional ministry. Now we are facing the reality that fewer unchurched people are willing to visit a Christian church.

"This will compel us to embrace a go and tell – or incarnational – approach," he said.

"Should we invite our friends to church? Sure. But should we be, do, and tell the Gospel to people in culture? You bet. It is not only biblical, but it is even more essential today as our culture grows increasingly resistant to the church."  More here.

Stop it with the numbers?

The late Richard John Neuhaus in First Things seems to think so:

A priest on Long Island tells me that, when he was newly ordained, he had the chance to visit with the legendary Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, who was famed for, among other things, winning many converts to the Catholic Church. Sheen was in the hospital and, as it turned out, on his deathbed. “Archbishop Sheen,” my friend said, “I have come for your counsel. I want to be a convert-making priest like you. I’ve already won fifteen people to the faith. What is your advice?” Sheen painfully pushed himself up on his elbows from his reclining position and looked my friend in the eye. “The first thing to do,” he said, “is to stop counting.”

Another Perspective on Counting...

"It took 18 centuries for dedicated believers to grow from 0% of the world's population to 2.5% in 1900, only 70 years to grow from 2.5% to 5% in 1970, and just the last 30 years to grow from 5% to 11.2% of the world population. Now for the first time in history there is one believer for every nine people worldwide who aren't believers...we're talking about Bible-reading, Bible-believing stream of Christianity." (Ralph D. Winter and Bruce A. Koch/Perspectives)

Why we don't make disciples

1. Our world view is all wrong. "Be holy as I am holy" is not a core conviction.

2. We prefer the things that are "more exciting" - like worship, harvesting tithes, building buildings, getting on the latest trendy movement of evangelicalism.

3. Not intentional enough. We think Sunday school or the regular programming dynamic of the local church will do the trick to transform lives.

4. We read the gospels for many reasons but not to find the methodology of Jesus for changing the world.

5. Hard to brag about discipleship in the statistics manual of district conference.

6. It is hard work.

7. We were not discipled therefore we don't have a clue what And meant by discipleship or how to do it.

8. American society is a time stealer, and discipleship, alas, takes time.

9.  In Acts, they made disciples.  The secret was the infilling of the Spirit.  Do we take the third person of the Trinity serious anymore?


Luther

"Beware!  God will not ask you at your death and at the Last  Day how much you have left in your will, whether you have given so and so much to churches...he will say to you, 'I was hungry, and you gave me no food; I was naked, and you did not clothe me' (Matt. 25:42-43).  Take these words to heart!  The important thing is whether you have given to your neighbor and treated him well."  (Luther's Works  45:286)

Who said anything about safe?

In his book The Will to Live On, Herman Wouk tells of a meeting he had with modern Israel's first president, David Ben-Gurion, and how Ben-Gurion urged him to move to the newly planted nation of Israel.

The president:  "You must return here to live," he said. "This is the only place for Jews like you. Here you will be free."

"Free?" I ventured to reply. "Free? With enemy armies ringing you, with their leaders publicly threatening to wipe out 'the Zionist entity,' with your roads impassable after sundown—free?"

"I did not say safe," the old man retorted, "I said free."     Citation: Gordon MacDonald, speaker and author; source: Herman Wouk, The Will to Live On, (Cliff Street Books, 2000)

Author Interview: Kara Powell, Sticky Faith

Kara Powell is the Executive Director of the Fuller Youth Institute and a faculty member at Fuller Theological Seminary. She speaks regularly at youth ministry conferences and has authored a number of books,. She joined The Matt Friedeman Show to discuss her latest work, Sticky Faith. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of her interview.

One of the first things you say is that parents need to talk with their kids about their own faith.

According to some really good research , 40 to 50 percent of kids who graduate from good homes, good churches, and good youth groups leave the faith.

 What many of us tend to do is ask our kids questions about their faith. Depending on your kid's mood and personality, you might get an answer, and you might just get an eye-roll.

We need to keep asking those questions, but we also need to share about our own faith journeys, what God is doing in our lives.

Another thing you say is that some students believe in a "works" faith.

This is another really interesting finding. We asked these college juniors, who we studied over three years, what it meant to be a Christian.1/3 of these students didn't mention Jesus in their response. They listed behaviors, good behaviors, that they think a Christian should live up to. But when they fail to live up to those behaviors, they lose their faith

If you look at Paul's epistles, what's interesting is that the commands that God wants us to live out are generally at the end of Paul's epistles, after he has laid a solid theological basis of God's love. If we don't frame God's commands in His love, we end up with a "gospel of sin management."

Another thing we have to talk about with our teenagers is that Jesus is bigger than any mistake. What we would love to see is for high school and college students to know that when they mess up, the first place to turn is God, and the second place to turn is the Church.

Pastor's Circle - Sam Shaw

Sam Shaw is the pastor of the Memphis, TN Orchard Fellowship, which recently celebrated its first anniversary. He joined the Pastor's Circle to discuss the role forgiveness plays in families. Here are the "CliffsNotes" of his segment.

Why is forgiveness such an important topic?

I don't know anything that gets families stuck like this does.

All families have sin, sin causes pain, and pain requires forgiveness.

My four kids, my wife and I all lived together, which means you have six sinners all living under one roof.

I think there's a lot of confusion about what forgiveness is and what it is not.

It is not excusing sin, diminishing sin, denying sin.

Does overcommitment play a role in the breakdown of familial relationships?

That is absolutely part of the problem.

Sports are a major thing. If you have a kid playing sports, it's all the time.

At some point you have to decide not to let the tail wag the dog.

There really is a craziness. It's an overload, and the kids feel it. I think you have to decide what is important in your family.

It's about growing together and experiencing life together.

Pastor's Circle - Steve Blakemore

Steve Blakemore is the Professor of Philosophy at Wesley Biblical Seminary in Jackson, Mississippi, as well as the newly appointed pastor of Wesley Chapel. Here are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.
 
How should a pastor talk about politics from the pulpit?

I think the first thing we should keep in mind when we talk about politics is that Christians do not have an investment in either political party.

We have to speak in such a way that the people in the pews understand that the political process can be good or bad, but it's not ultimate.

I can get really wrought up about the direction of the country, but I have to remind myself that if I'm not careful I can sound like the Republican party is the ultimate hope for America.

That's the first thing that can keep us from being able to proclaim the Kingdom values in this.

How can a pastor keep his balance?

The first thing is this. We need to make sure that we do not spend time demonizing individuals.

We need to speak strongly against policies that are obviously immoral, like abortion or same-sex marriage. When a party is advocating those policies openly, we need to speak against it.

But when individuals endorse those policies, we cannot demonize those people and elevate others.

That seems to me to cross the line. We have to proclaim the truth, but always remember that Christ died for these people.

It's not easy.

It certainly is hard. I heard a bit of your devotional today, talking about how Jesus challenges us to do things that are hard.

I think that doesn't just involve going to the abortion clinic, or standing outside of the strip club.

It also involves the rigor of thinking compassionately without getting mushy about things that matter.

Jesus is the one who said to us, "Love your enemies." I don't think that command goes away.

What are we to make of the whole Ted Haggard situation?

I can't tell you how deeply, incredibly sad this makes me.

It's almost unbelievable how this kind of ministry can unravel in someone's life.

It seems to me, though, that if we ratchet it back a little bit, that every pastor may not have that big of a name, that big of a following, but every pastor has to be on guard against celebrity.

Even if it's just in your own church.

What are the antidotes to celebrity?

I think that something you talk about a lot is the first antidote.

You've got to have a group of men who will keep you accountable. Guys who are not impressed with you. Guys who will speak the truth to you.

The celebrity problem is more easily avoided if you have that kind of accountability.

The second thing is that pastors need to be out somewhere in the hard places of ministry. To be reminded again and again of the suffering that goes out in the world.

Evangelism/Discipleship Smackdown, i

The Problem
Edward Gibbon:  The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire...Gibbon's conclusions for the downfall of the Empire:

1)  The rapid increase of divorce; the undermining of the dignity and sanctity of the home, which is the basis of human society.

2) High and higher taxes and the spending of public monies for free bread and circuses for the populace.

3) The mad craze for pleasure; sports becoming every year more exciting and more brutal.

4)  The building of gigantic armaments when the real enemy is within, the decadence of the people.

5)  The decay of religion - faith fading into mere form, losing touch with life and becoming impotent to warn and guide the people. 

and...

Arnold Toynbee's A Study of History...studied the life-span of twenty-one civilizations...those that failed to survive went through a cycle:

Slavery... faith in the divine... courage... emancipation and independence... prosperity... selfishness... apathy... dependence on the welfare state...slavery. 

So...Let the Church, Be the Church

"This is the original design of the church of Christ. It is a body of men compacted together in order, first, to save each his own soul, then to assist each other in working out their salvation, and afterwards, as far as in them lies, to save all men from present and future misery, to overturn the kingdom of Satan, and set up the kingdom of Christ. And this ought to be the continued care and endeavour of every member of his church. Otherwise he is not worthy to be called a member thereof, as he is not a living member of Christ."  (John Wesley, “The Reformation of Manners,” The Bicentennial Edition of the Works of John Wesley, (34 vols., Nashville: Abingdon Press, 1985), 2:302.)

A Price to Be Paid for This Nation...and any Nation

"China is not to be won for Christ by quiet, ease-loving men and women … The stamp of men and women we need is such as will put Jesus, China, [and] souls first and foremost in everything and at every time—even life itself must be secondary."  ("Hudson Taylor's Spiritual Secret"...here is a great Christian History piece on him.)

Beware

If you make disciples by sitting around and talking, don't be surprised if your disciples sit around and talk. 

Jesus called His disciples to Himself, and then moved.  He taught, and preached, but His instruction was in the context of movement to the least and lost, the untouchables of His culture.  If we make our disciples by doing anything less, then what we will get is disappointing disciples, families, small groups, churches.  Get moving.  Much is at stake.  (MF)

Charles Wesley's Hymn:  Lovers of Pleasure

‘Lovers of pleasure more than God,
For you He suffered pain;
Swearers, for you He spilt his blood;
And shall He bleed in vain?

Misers, for you his life He paid,
Your basest crime He bore:
Drunkards, your sins on Him were laid,
That you might sin no more.

The God of love, to earth He came,
That you might come to heaven;
Believe, believe in Jesus’ Name,
And all your sin’s forgiven.

Believe in Him that died for thee,
And, sure as He hath died,
Thy debt is paid, Thy soul is free,
And thou art justified.’

Pastor's Circle - Greg Surratt

Greg Surratt is the founding pastor of Seacoast Church, located in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina. He joined the Pastor's Circle to discuss his newest book, Ir-rev-rend. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

Tell us about your book.

Ir-rev-rend refers to what a lot of people think about me. I'm real, raw, and probably different from what you would expect in a pastor.

It's a bunch of stories of real-life people that I've met, and how we met God.

Do you think we put on a "pretense"?

I definitely do. We try to put on an image to impress each other, and sometimes even to impress God.

Sometimes I think that's what stands between us and a real-life image of God to other people.

What kind of facade do we put on?

Sometimes we pretend like everything's perfect all the time. We get up in the mornings and say the wrong things.

I think with parents there's a huge pressure to produce the perfect child.We put pressure on them that God doesn't put on us.

How can we get real?

We do it in several ways. In the context of a large gathering, we try to be as real as we possibly can.

One thing I've discovered about this generation is they just want to be real.

In our church, the small group is definitely the core.

Is there a tension between going for excellence and being raw?

You've gotta be discerning with who you share the biggest flaws of your life with, which is why we have small groups in our church.

I believe God made us in His image. We do everything the best we can possibly do, but remember that the outcome doesn't depend on us, it depends on Him.

You talk about money in the book. Tell us about that.

You've got the balance between the concepts of generosity and prosperity.

I deal with that in the book. Jesus talks about money more than anything else.

There's a nerve that connects our heart to our wallet. Oftentimes our wallet is the last thing to get saved.

My dad's motto was always "Err on the side of generosity."

Out of all the areas, what's the one you deal with the most?

To me, it's probably discouragement. There are things that happen every day when the Enemy tries to get us off track and discouraged so God can't use us.

Ministry Spotlight - LUC Boys Ranch

Ken Ortman, Founder and Administrator of Lives Under Construction Boys Ranch, was a guest on The Matt Friedeman Show's Ministry Spotlight. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of the segment.

Tell us about your ministry.

We work with the tough kids who have been diagnosed with various disorders.

Frankly, I think oftentimes those disorders are used as excuses for holding them to a lower standard, both by parents and teachers and by the boys themselves.

They're put in our family atmosphere, and since we have a working ranch, the guys care for the animals. We teach them trades, which gives them a feeling of satisfaction after they master them.

Do the boys use the trades you teach them?

Two things happen. We work in the community a lot, mowing lawns and such. A lot of guys say to me that the last thing they'll ever do for a job is mowing lawns.

Invariably, in the first year after they leave our ranch, they end up getting a job mowing lawns.

The same thing happens with the trades. The guys have gone from here into trade schools knowing as much as their graduates do after the first year. They get to be used as tutors, which is just great for them.

What kind of families do they come from, and how do they get referred to you?

The families are generally solid families, who have tried the medication, the short-term programs, and the child just keeps on manipulating or bullying their way out.

We recognize that only God can change a heart. But they will generally not respect God's authority until they respect their earthly father's authority.

References come mostly from parents whose child has come through our program and had good results, and also from our website.

What's the most transforming thing you do?

They are accepted unconditionally. We are not going to kick them out, no matter what.

There's always some testing initially, to see if we'll stand by that, and then they settle in.

That develops the basis of them trusting us.

How long is a kid normally there?

The average is about 19 months. It takes about 6 months to get the bad habits out, and then about a year to get good habits in their place.

It changes for every boy, but that's the average.

Pastor's Circle - Rick Scarborough

 Dr. Rick Scarborough, Founder and President of Vision America, joined the Pastor's Circle today to discuss Ohio's "heartbeat bill" and the upcoming "Pulpit Freedom Sunday". Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview. 

Tell us about the "heartbeat bill" in Ohio?

It's a bill that has already passed through the house. Governor Kasich has already pledged to sign it.

If it passes through the senate and the state legislature, it will be the first bill of its kind in the country.

We believe this bill will be challenged; we believe it has the possibility of going all the way to the Supreme Court, and possibly overturning Roe v. Wade.

This bill will immediately save tens of thousands of babies lives the moment it's signed into law.

This is a chance to keep chipping away at this horrific crime.

Pulpit Freedom Sunday is coming up. What is it, and why is it important?

Alliance Defense Fund is encouraging pastors to preach a politically-themed message on the first Sunday of October.

Typically, historical preachers were better educated and had more opportunity to meet the candidates.

That's what Alliance Defense Fund is encouraging pastors to move toward again.

It is not only the right, but the responsibility of Christians to get involved in the political process.

Anything the Church pulls out of becomes corrupt. We are the Salt. We are the Light.

The whole theory that you can't mix church and politics is a lie.

Pastor's Circle - Gil McKee

Gil McKee, Senior Pastor of the First Baptist Church of Tuscaloosa, joined the Pastor's Circle today to discuss discipleship. Here are the "CliffsNotes" of his segment.

Define discipleship for me.

The basic meaning of being a disciple is being a learner.

One of the things we're trying to learn right now is what the difference is between being a "Christian" and being a genuine follower of Christ.

That's something we're trying to work through.

What are the characteristics of a disciple?

We first of all talk about the attributes and characteristics of Jesus. We need to have the mind of Christ, the attitude of Christ, the behavior of Christ.

We're on a 9-week series right now about reading Scripture carefully. We're really learning how to dive into God's Word.

Last night  we were dealing with how to read the Bible through its proper historical context, cultural context, and  literary context. Those are things that the average Christian probably never addresses, but as you know, it's so important.

Tell me about the "attitude of Jesus."

When I think of the attitude of Jesus, I immediately go to the Fruit of the Spirit. I think Jesus fleshed out in human daily life what we're supposed to be.

I don't think the problem for us is not that we don't know what we're supposed to be, I think the problem is allowing the Spirit to work in our lives. It's a daily challenge, and a daily submission to Him.

What about the "behavior of Jesus"?

I guess we could begin with our habits. What are we doing in our daily life that is drawing us closer to Him?

And an even bigger question than that, to my mind, is what comes out of that? What is that producing in my life?

One of the things we have to do is to ask ourselves is whether this is what Jesus would do.

If it matches with the life of Christ as seen in Scripture, then so be it. If not, then it's our job to allow ourselves to be conformed.

The MFShow Audience Quotes

Elizabeth from VA - My uncle was diagnosed with Alzheimers at 60...All my aunt's friends said she should "put him away." She stayed with him in their home for nine years, and he died in their home, in her arms.

Roger from AR - [My wife and I] have been through our share. But even though she's non-ambulatory and can't speak well, we say the Lord's Prayer together three times a day.

Tim from AR - My wife is disabled. She asked me, "Honey, are you going to leave me?" I said, "Heck no." I prayed for her, and God gave her to me.

Jimmy from TN - My wife has had three strokes, and she suffers from cancer. She...looked at herself in the mirror and asked me "Why don't you leave me?" I told her, "Honey, I didn't marry your body. I married you."

Jerry from TX - Men, the Bible says we should love our wives as Christ loves the Church. How you feel has nothing to do with love. We should love as God loves, which means no matter what you feel, you love, love, love.

Sam from AL - When I made my vows to my wife 13 years ago, that's until death. Until I die or she dies. That's what my dad did, and that's what I'm going to do.

Pastor's Circle - Jerry Horner

Jerry Horner has been a university professor and administrator since 1962. He also functions as the executive director of New Creation Ministries. He joined the Pastor's Circle to discuss prayer and fasting. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

How essential is a daily prayer life?

How essential is it to eat food? How essential is it to breathe?

I daresay that you can measure a person's spiritual depth by his prayer life.

If prayer was so important that Jesus often went out alone in solitude to do it, how important must it be to us?

What should  you do when you pray?

First of all, you find a "prayer closet". Basically, to me, that means a place with no distractions.

To me, that is the key.

Getting away from not only physical distractions, but also with mental and spiritual ones.

Some people say it's easy to pray. But if you are wrestling and agonizing in prayer, it's very difficult.

Why do we find it difficult to praise God?

It's interesting you say that, because I remember a lesson I learned as a teenager. I've never forgotten it.

I heard a man say, "The only time people pray is when they pray to get something or to get out of something."

Maybe we ought to try the posture of praise in prayer more. That sets the tone.

Some people say, "Well, I'm too weighed down with problems." And I say, "Go to the Psalms.

Praise and "blah's" don't mix.

How important is fasting?

Fasting is a discipline where, as I said, your priority is in the spiritual.

It doesn't do any good to just do without food.

Anybody can do without food.

But what do you do in that place where you would normally eat?

Fasting focuses all attention and all energy on God.

Pastor's Circle - Brian Jones

Brian Jones is the Senior Pastor at Christ's Church of the Valley in Philadelphia. He joined the Pastor's Circle to discuss the impetus behind his newest book Hell Is Real (But I Hate To Admit It). Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his segment.

You say here that for the first part of your ministry, you didn't believe in Hell.

I carried that for four years.

I went to seminary on fire for God, ready to get equipped to serve him, and in the middle of that, I found myself an atheist.

I was able by the time I graduated to get my faith in God back together, but I was unable to believe in Hell.

I made a commitment that I wasn't going to tell anybody.

So for four years after I graduated, I didn't believe in Hell.

What changed your mind?

I do this thing where I try to get away once a month for a prayer and planning retreat.

On one such day I was at a monastery in Northwest Ohio, and I realized right in the middle of my prayer time that something was wrong.

So I did something that I encourage Christians never to do: I played Bible Roulette.

And my finger landed on a passage about hell. And it did it again. And again. And again. It happened six times.

I spent the rest of the day reading the New Testament, and underlining all the passages about Hell. They were all over the place.

I was so full of remorse. I spent an hour repenting before God.

Then I flew home and repented to my wife. I called my staff together for an emergency meeting, and repented to them. I repented to the congregation.

Why do we "hate to admit it"?

There is reluctance, and I totally get it.

For one, it's a very unpopular idea. Typically, in the Christian community, it's the really strange, creepy Christians who talk about hell.

No one wants to be like that.

Also, I think a lot of people think that life is hell enough. It's hard to conceive honestly for most people that "Oh, I deserve hell on top of all this."

Another thing is that it seems like the punishment is disproportionate to the crime.

Most people don't get that at the core of Christianity is a very disturbing concept: Propitiation.

God made Jesus into this slaughtered sacrifice to appease his justice and wrath.

But most people also don't understand the love that inspired God to do that.

You can't understand God's love until you understand His wrath.

What do you want to see happen as a result of this book?

That is the most important question you could ask me.

I've been hoping and praying that people will have the same experience I did.

I want the book to take people through their own personal discovery.

You change someone's technique, and they'll stop evangelizing next month.

You change their heart, and they'll evangelize for a lifetime.

Ministry Spotlight - Christian Women's Job Corps

Becky Sumrall is the Executive Director of the Christian Women's Job Corps of Middle TN. She joined The Matt Friedeman Show's Ministry Spotlight.. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of her segment.

Talk to us about your mission.

The mission at CWJC is to empower individuals to break harmful cycles caused by poverty by providing education, mentoring and resources.

That education is not only giving them life skills, but also teaching them about the Lord, and what He can do in their lives.

Many of the women have been assisted by the government for years,

How do these women find out about you?

Agencies in our communities refer to us.

The women in our program refer their friends and family to us, because they like what's happening in their lives.

We don't have trouble getting people in our area. We have thirty to forty people on our waiting list.

What makes your organization different?

Our mission allows us to have a much more holistic approach.

Because we are faith-based, people are mentored and

With most agencies, their mission doesn't allow them to do much of that.

What seems to be the common denominator with these women?

They have had some kind of crisis that has happened

We have women who have been deserted by their husbands. We have women who have been sexually or physically abused.

We have people who have been on welfare for several years, and are kind of stuck there.

We have homeless women, who have lost everything.

They come from a broad array of difficulties. Many are very discouraged. They have tried a lot of different things that haven't worked to help them.

Of anything that you do with them, what is the thing that seems to help them the most?

The most important possession to people in poverty is relationships.

It's usually through relationships that they come to our ministry.

They have a mentor who supports them and encourages them.

It's in that that women and men find the power and hope to make a change.

What's the problem that looks like Goliath to CWJC right now?

To have Christians join us and build relationships with these men and women.

This is a national organization. In most states, people are able to plug in.

Pastor's Circle - Darryl Starnes

Darryl B. Starnes, Bishop of the AME Zion Church, joined the Pastor's Circle to discuss our youth and self-control.

What is it that stands between our youth and self-control?

I love the insight you brought into self-control, with letting the Master control us.

I think that is the heart of it. I believe the Holy Spirit will control if we allow Him.

The passage in Ephesians says "Do not be drunk with wine, but be filled with the Holy Spirit."

What enables us to self-control is to let the Holy Spirit have control in our lives.

How does your church respond to the assumption that teens are going to drink/have sex and there's nothing we can do?

Some say, "Well, just be discreet and keep your behavior from dishonoring the Church."

But the Enemy allows us to go deeper into bondage when we're keeping it secret.

And then there's the moment when it all comes to life.

The only thing we have is the power of the Holy Spirit.

What is the best way to keep our teens from buying into the lie? Youth group or adult mentoring?

I don't think it's either/or, I think it's both/and.

I really believe in the matter of character development, the younger we are when we're a part of a dynamic disciple-making process, the sooner God can begin to develop fruit in our lives.

I think it requires both mentoring by a seasoned believer, and young people challenging each other.

It doesn't seem like adults are stepping up to the plate there.

The way we look at youth ministry determines our involvement in it.

A lot of people look at it as a waste, because the young people will leave our church eventually.

I like to look at it as training missionaries to be sent out for God's glory.

The best investment in the Church is young people who will have a lifetime of impact all over the world wherever God sends them.

What can adults do to make that happen?

Everything has to come from within. Young people have to find their way from within.

Until young people have Him inside, they may try to do things to please us, but nothing can happen until they have Jesus.

Do you have confidence that this can happen?

As I look at this generation, I think one of the pluses is that there is more concern about their fellow people than there was in our generations.

That can be an advantage for young people, because instead of only caring about themselves, they care about others.

It all depends on whether they channel that into their relationship with Christ.

How do you light a fire under the apathetic crowd of teenagers?

It probably has to be youth who light that fire.

There's nothing like a youth talking to another youth about the things they both face. I think a lot of times they think we won't understand.

God can use youth in powerful ways.

Pastor's Circle - Jeffrey Klick

Jeffrey Klick is the Senior Pastor of Hope Family Fellowship. He joined the Pastor's Circle to discuss his book Courage to Flee. Below are the "CliffsNotes" of his segment.

You talk in your book about "living a moral life in an immoral world." What is a moral life?

The motive for writing this book came from looking around and seeing immorality in the moral authority. There are so many pastors committing sexual sin.

When I'm talking about a moral life, it's specifically in the area of sexual purity.

Is there more of that going on today than there was 50 years ago?

I think we know more about it. It's always been a struggle.

If you're even remotely familiar with the Old Testament, you can see sexual sin all throughout it.

I think the standards of society are much more loose now.

It's much more acceptable today. But it's always been there.

The thing about sexual sin is that it's never just about you.

Sin will always take you further than you want to go, and cost you more than you could possibly imagine.

That's certainly illustrated in [the story of David].

The word of God is true. The wages of sin is death.

When you cross the lines, you're unleashing death.

What we do impacts generations.

Your first chapter is about compromise. You say the words "I would never do that" send a chill up your spine. Why?

I think it's naivety, for one thing. If you think you're above the ability to sin, it's setting you up to fall.

If someone says, "I could never do that," it's a good bet that they will.

We're all one or two bad decisions away from a lot of trouble.

What does it mean to "flee"?

Most people know when they've crossed into an improper relationship.

The Scripture's pretty clear that we need to look at our thoughts and take them captive.

If you're serious about getting free in this situation, you're going to have to take some radical steps.

Pastor's Circle - Mark Durie

Dr. Mark Durie is a theologian, human rights activist and vicar of St. Mary's Anglican church in Caulfield, Victoria, Australia. You can visit his website here. He came on The Matt Friedeman Show to discuss the effects of 9/11. Here are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

I want to talk about 9/11. Have we learned anything from that experience?

I think we're more afraid than we were. But whether we're better equipped to deal with that I'm not sure.

It's very difficult for people to face up to the religious motivations for that act.

Obviously our lives have been changed. Flying is completely different now.

We live in fear now much more than we used to. I think that's a great loss.

What does the rest of the world think about this?

I think it rattled everyone.

Other parts of the world have had similar events. This is not an American issue, it's a global issue. But 9/11 was the wake up call.

I think the evangelical world is divided on how to respond to Islam. So in some ways it's been an effect that has divided Christians.

I think we should love Muslims, reach out to them, make friends with them, and share the love of Christ.

The real problem is the difference between Jesus and Mohammed.

The problem is when Muslims do terrible things in the name of Islam, they have an example in Mohammed. Whereas when Christians do evil things, they can't point back to Jesus.

We have to love, and still speak the truth. That's the challenge for us, I believe.

Are Muslims coming to the Christian faith?

More now than at any other time in history.

All over the world there are tens, even hundreds of thousands turning to Christ.

Research has been done on why Muslims convert to Christianity. The number one reason is that they see the quality of life and love in the Christian.

I've heard that many Muslims convert because of dreams.

And also through other miracles, healings, God showing up.

Jesus is calling to them. He wants them back.

Muslims are taught within Islam that dreams are very significant ways of communicating with God.

Pastor's Circle - Bill Ury

Dr. Bill Ury is Professor of Systematic Theology at Wesley Biblical Seminary and hosts the Hour of Holiness on AFR on Sunday mornings. He joined the Pastor's Circle to discuss the Holy Spirit.
 
Do we pay enough/too much attention to the Holy Spirit?

I think we've come through an era that was all about the Holy Spirit.

The Church tends to go through extremes.

We went through the extreme of treating the Holy Spirit as a "thing" that we could call on.

I think we've modified now, but we've kind of put him in the corner. I wonder really what would happen if the Holy Spirit led the Church.

You can't take any person of the Trinity off by themselves. I think we need to fully engage with who the Holy Spirit is.

In Scripture He moves through both the Old and New Testaments, and he does get more and more personal all throughout the Bible.

We feel guilty sometimes about over-emphasizing things, but I don't think we've emphasized Him enough.

Do you receive the Holy Spirit when you ask Jesus to save you?

God is not reserved. He always gives all of himself.

My point is to say there's an area of our lives that he hasn't been allowed to fill.

The human will is a dam that God allows. The water, the breath of God, is ready to move. But He's waiting for His own to say, "Come and fill me."

That's where the relationship deepens.

It's the ongoing debate about how a Christian is sanctified. It's a major battlefield, and we seem to have lost it.

How should someone who wants to be filled with the Spirit pray?

My prayer would be, "Lord, I look at myself, and I see that I've been living my own self-will. I want my will to become your will. I want to die to my will, and I want your Spirit to fill my heart and my life."

Ministry Spotlight - Wesley House Community Center

Wesley House Community Center, located in Meridian, MS, has been "helping people help themselves" since 1904. Director Ginger Grissom Stevens was featured on The Matt Friedeman Show's Ministry Spotlight. Below are the CliffsNotes of her segment.

What do you do at Wesley House?

God is alive and working at our facilities.

The program that y'all have heard about is a Child Advocacy program that is available at one of our locations.

God is really blessing Wesley House Ministries, because we are people that care about other people.

How do you get in contact with these under-privileged people?

They come to us from various organizations. We believe in networking.

We work with law enforcement, child protection services, hospitals, medical facilities and mental heatlh facilities around the state.

Everyone on staff here is called to this ministry.

The reason God is blessing us is that we keep the course. We are faith-based. We are Christian. We don't beat people over the head with the Bible, but there is no doubt that we are a Christian ministry.

Part of the reason that we have takers in this society is that society has allowed them to become takers.

We do our best to turn people in to productive members of society.

We look at the situation, we assess it, and then we do our best to work in it. None of us can do it alone.

Pastor's Circle - Johnnie Moore

Rev. Johnnie Moore serves at Liberty College as the Vice President for Executive Projects and the Campus Pastor. He joined the Pastor's Circle do discuss his newest book, Honestly. Here are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

Does the Church have a problem with hypocrisy?

I'd say we do. Whether you talk to Christians or secular people, they'll all agree that the problem has always been that Christians say one thing and do another. I'd say this is our biggest problem.

Christianity is a religion for the not-good-enough people. That's what sets it apart. 

Jesus arrived like man, on the chance that men would believe if a man preached the truth. 

It's okay to be a hypocrite in transition. It's not okay to be a hypocrite unashamedly.

How can we overcome our hypocrisy?

It starts with honesty. We have to deal with the tough issues. People need to be able to come to the church with their doubts. 

Doubts that all Christians face aren't dealt with openly and honestly in the faith.

How can you "use disillusionment"?

You ask the questions. Jesus can handle the questions. 

It goes back to Doubting Thomas, the much-vilified apostle. He wasn't going to believe until he saw it and touched it. We always bash Thomas for not immediately believing. 

But what I find interesting is that Jesus allowed Thomas to touch his wounds. And Thomas had a strong faith afterward.

If our disillusionment and disappointment leads us to find answers to our questions, then it's a good thing. 

I think the church should be a safe place for people to express their doubts.

Another thing you say is that evil can support belief. Explain that a little bit.

I once had the opportunity to sit down with the Bishop of Rwanda, and I asked him how he had kept his faith in the face of everything he had seen. I asked him where God had been. 

He said, "I'll tell you where God was.God was with the dying children, helping them." 

We would only know what evil is if we knew what good was. What kind of God would God be if we understood everything he did? 

In the book I write about the Holocaust, and how people of faith dealt with that. 

In the end, while I don't understand everything that happens, I have enough faith to believe no matter what.

Talk to us about the "emaciated soul".

You need spiritual food as much as you need physical food. 

You have to feed your soul the Word of God. You have to feed your soul communication with God. 

When you put something in, you get something out.

How about the "distracted soul"?

Jesus had every single reason to be busy. 

But we find him going off almost every single day to be alone with God.
If I were Jesus, and I had the universe in the palm of my hand, I would've been playing soccer on the sea of Galilee, or turning my enemies into donkeys, or sneaking into Caesar's palace playing tricks on people. 

But not Jesus. He spent time alone with God.

The fifth part of your book is Mission to Vision. Is it possible to have sanctified imagination?

I don't think that God gave us the brilliance of imagination just so we could create art and movies. 

God gave us imagination so we could see what could happen in this world if we changed it.  

There's this theory that scientists have called the Butterfly Theory, that claims if a butterfly flaps its wings in Africa, it can potentially have an effect that causes a hurricane to hit the East Coast of America. 

God has intricately designed and balanced this world, so that the smallest actions can have the largest effects.

You can purchase Honestly on Amazon.com by following this link.

Pastor's Circle - Daniel Simmons

Dr. Daniel Simmons, Senior Pastor Mt. Zion Baptist Church. He has a role in the upcoming movie Courageous. He was featured on the Matt Friedeman Show's Pastor's Circle. Here are the "CliffsNotes" of his segment.

Tell us about Courageous.

The storyline is about restoring men to fatherhood, taking the place that God intended for us. 

It follows four different police officers, each of them in a different situation with their relationship with God and with their family. 

They find their way back to God and back to the right relationships with their families.

Your website mentions a Boys to Men ministry. What is that?

One of the things that we recognized from day one was that men are important in children's lives. 

So what we did was start a special mentoring program. 

The public schools allowed us to go in and identify some boys who needed help. 

Twice a month we bring those boys to our church and spend about two hours with them. 

We have a Bible study for one hour, and then we expose them to the influence of godly men. 

During the summer we bring them in for a 6-week boot camp. 

We teach them academics in the morning, and sort of the rites of passage for a man in the afternoon.

What has the fruit of that ministry been?

We have the opportunity to track these boys, and we see some of them go into college. 

Some of them are in the military. 

Some of them have come back and are providing the leadership with Boys to Men. 

They're staying with their families, and they're staying in the church.

Who should take the blame for out problem of fatherlessness?

I think there's enough blame to go around. 

I think the church dropped the ball, because the church got away from sound biblical teaching and discipline. 

A lot of pastors say that the world has changed and we have to change with it. I don't agree with that.

What do we need to do about racial reconciliation?

I'm convinced we need to still talk about it. 

In my community, we have a long history of racial separation.  

I was told that it would always be that way. 

But if you really believe what the Bible says, that in Christ we are all one, then we can overcome that.

Pastor's Circle - Todd Hudnall

Todd Hudnall is the pastor of Radiant Church in Colorado Springs, CO. He joined the Pastor's Circle to discuss sin in the pastorate. Here are the "CliffsNotes" of his interview.

What are the particular things that we struggle with as pastors?

I think it's easy for most of us to fall into competitiveness with other pastors.

Paul says that's not very wise.

You either feel this inflated feeling of yourself if you're doing well, or you feel this feeling of failure if you're doing poorly.

Another of the biggest ones in the pastorate is found in Hebrews. It's discouragement.

When things don't happen the way you wished, or people's lives don't turn out the way you prayed they would, it's easy to fall into discouragement.

What's the antidote?

The scripture gives us a lot of clues to this.

A lot of it goes back to asking God, "What do you want me to do?"

I think that so much more happens than we see the fruit of.

God places us in certain places at certain times. I think the churches that are small and don't seem to do much are doing

I don't think we're going to know until eternity the impact that we've had.

If we're just faithful to everything we're called to do, God will work through us.

Do you think pastors have a profound enough prayer life?

I absolutely don't think we do.

I've seen statistics that have 5 minutes to 15 minutes every day that pastors spend in prayer.

That's definitely one of the sins of the pastorate.

This is an often-quoted phrase, but I believe that if there's no prayer in a pastor's personal life, then there's no power in the pulpit.

Another sin we struggle with is worldliness.

We can get into a place where we've done this for so long that you can go into autopilot and do it when your heart and life are not where they should be.

We get caught up with the things of this life instead of the next

I think there's a lack of love and passion for Jesus that can even be invisible from the pulpit.

Talk to me about pastors and sexual sin.

Men and women are going to be tempted that way, and men have to be on guard against lust.

With pastors, there can be this tendency to think we're exempt from certain things, and we're not going to be tempted by certain things. That's a deception.

Do pastors need people praying for them?

Absolutely. Paul would even beg people to pray for him.

I have 8 or 9 people that come to my house periodically just to pray for me.

It's so reassuring to have those people.

People want to help. They want their pastor to succeed. They don't want him to fall.

It's amazing how many people will get involved in that.