Ministry Spotlight: The John Perkins Foundation

Today's Ministry Spotlight focused on John Perkins, founder of the John M. Perkins Foundation for Reconciliation and Development.


What's the thing you're most excited about with the John Perkins Foundation?

What's resonating with my soul is this new Christian people that are developing on the scene.

A group of white, black, and others.

There's a new people developing on the scene, and I'm having the privilege of teaching these people.

These are black and white groups from all over the country. We have a bible study right now, and to see these people who are taking the Bible seriously, and are not going back into our racist trap culture.

We all need to be born again and start over. There's a new group of young people who are past that foolishness.

While the others are teaching the children, we're building houses, getting people out of prison.

I want to do the best I can to make the loving justice of God known.

Get away from what someone else said about God, but reading scripture again.

And for teaching, so that the people of God may do good works here on earth.

The people of God...are using most of the biblical resources for themselves.

Working together is what reconciles races. Is that right?

I think it's still important to come together and visit each other.

But I think real reconciliation will come when we get involved outside ourselves.

It's out of that they're going to see our good works and glorify our father in heaven.

You said the younger generation seems to be more open to reconciliation. Why is that?

They're looking quicker at our failures.

Now with the media, it's so quick, and they can also see the world.

They can see the conflict, and they can see the death.

I think it's because we're in an information age that drives that.

Other folks didn't care much about the environment.

We have a responsibility to care for this planet. 

We're at a moment of opportunity right now.

"Socialism isn't sharing wealth, it's the forced sharing of wealth."

Fr. Robert Sirico, president of the Acton Institute, takes free enterprise seriously. He thinks you should too.


Is it important for Christians to take the poor seriously?

We are obligated to take care of the poor.

You could say that it was Christianity that institutionalized charity.

The church institutionalized organized giving internationally, because we saw Christ in the poor.

The question should not be, "Must we do it?", but "How should we do it?"

How do we best help?

Most of us come in touch with the poor.

We've replaced the notion of compassion, which means to suffer with someone, and replaced it with, "To give to."

I think Paul said sometimes you have to get a man to work, before you can help him.

The best system for everyone, including the poor, is free enterprise.

Socialism isn't sharing wealth, it's the forced sharing of wealth.

You basically drain all of the morality out of the action.

Arthur Brooks has written a very good book documenting who gives to the poor....and it's conservatives.

Why is that not obvious? Why does that not make it into the media?

I think the reason it doesn't get into the media is because the media itself is liberal.

And conservatives are, well, conservative. They don't talk a lot about it.

The liberals talk a lot about it.

I'd love to allow you to give us a quick commercial about how we can learn from the Acton Institute.

Thanks for the opportunity. First, go to our website.

It's a veritable library on theology, on economics.

God did not redeem the world by simply speaking a word.

This is why Christians throughout the ages have been concerned with this world.

What the Acton institute does is...see what the best ways of helping the poor are.

It's not just having...a heart for the poor. It's having a head for the poor.

"How do you reconcile the loving God of the Old Testament with the harsh God of the New Testament?"

David Lamb has written the book God Behaving Badly: Is the God of the Old Testament Angry, Sexist and Racist?, examining and challenging the notion that the Old Testament concept of God is different than that of the New Testament. On the Matt Friedeman Show, Lamb briefly addressed some of the difficult questions concerning God and the Old Testament.


Do you consider negative images of God a valid reading?

I think there is some validity to it.

There are some people running around called the New Atheists who just look at the problematic texts.

I think sometimes evangelical Christians can do the opposite. We can look at Psalm 23, Jeremiah 29:11.

To really get the full picture we need to look at the passages we love and the texts that we're less used to.

Give us an example of the text, I guess the one that comes up the most.

The one that probably comes up the most is the Canaanites.

It's just problematic on a number of levels.

When people ask me about the Canaanites, I don't want to brush it aside.

I think there are some good questions about why God commands the Canaanites to be wiped out.

We need to look at the context of what's going on in that situation.

Basically the Canaanites were being punished for their wickedness.

The other thing we need to say is that the Israelites who had been oppressed in Egypt needed a homeland.

One of the things we see is that every person or group who shows hospitality to Israel coming out of Egypt is shown mercy back.

I think there's a deep message of how God is at work, bringing in all nations and people like bringing in Rahab to accomplish His purposes.

What kind of things were the Canaanites doing?

They were idolaters...child sacrifice was something else they committed. They were also not hospitable to the Israelites.

The Israelites were about as weak as you could imagine. The Canaanites came after them and tried to pick off the weak from the back.

A lot of people think there's a difference. How do you answer that?

I open my book by asking the question, "How do you reconcile the loving God of the Old Testament with the harsh God of the New Testament?"

If you pick and choose certain texts, you make Jesus look sugar-coated.

Sometimes God gets angry in the Old Testament and sometimes Jesus gets angry in the New Testament.

The thing I see really clearly in the Old Testament is that God gets angry, but he is slow to anger and abounding in love.

The main thing that characterizes God in both the Old and New Testaments is love.

This God of the Bible seems to be sexist. Your comeback to that?

We've gotta start with the book of Genesis. A lot of our understanding of God, humanity, people, sin starts right there.

The first thing we need to remember about women is that they were made in the image of God.

I think that's the very first that that's gotta be emphasized. Both men and women are made in the image of God.

The man and the woman were alone, they were naked, they were unashamed.

God brought these two together...I think that's a wonderful example of marriage.

"Gratitude is really a get-rich-quick scheme"

Father Albert Hasse, a Franciscan priest, came into the Pastor's Circle to talk about developing a lifestyle of gratitude or, as he called it, the attitude of gratitude.. Learn more about Fr. Haase here.

Why is gratitude such an important part of your life?

I think really as Paul reminds us in the letter to the Galatians, it's for freedom that Christ has set us free.

So many people I have met in my ministry are in a prison of worry.

One of the things I have discovered in my own life about gratitude...is that gratitude is really a get-rich-quick scheme.

As we look at the things God has blessed us with, we become more aware of how much we have.

Everything is a gift from God. And I think as we grow in that attitude of gratitude, we come to realize that I don't have to buy a lottery ticket to be wealthy, I'm already as wealthy as I can possibly be.

The people who are richest are the people who live lives of gratitude.

People who have an appreciative spirit live life on a whole different frequency.

They know that God in the end will always take care of us.

I really try to push hard the importance of an attitude of gratitude.

My faith in God has deepened the more and more I become a grateful person.

Interesting, isn't it, what gratitude can do for your attitude?

Isn't ironic that sometimes the freest people are those who have been incarcerated.

We sometimes are the very people who become imprisoned by other things.

Sometimes when we're in prison...it really challenges us to take a hard look at our lives.

I've traveled to developing nations, and the people seem to be happier than in America. Explain that one.

I think so often, in America this idea of the American idea to get more and more...it's very easy to think that I am responsible for everything in my life. I am responsible for my money.

It was all my work. And that really is the lie of the American dream. The lie of the American dream tracks us back to the ego.

If someone's out there saying I do need to be more grateful, what are some practical tips you're gonna give them?

Every morning when you wake up, every evening when you go to bed, take a look at what you're thankful for.

You begin to get more and more particular.

Those are all ways that God speaks to use to remind us that we are lovable and He cares for us.

Gratitude is something that doesn't come naturally...especially us Americans.

The practical ways is every morning and every evening before retiring take a look and see how God has touched you.

I guarantee, you begin to live on another frequency.

I encourage my students to praise God and thank Him. What's the difference between these two.

The difference is it's often thanksgiving that leads to adoration.

Thanksgiving looks at me...adoration is focused on God.

As Moses before the burning bush, I take my shoes off and worship.

Sometimes I think we can't adore God without that attitude of gratitude.

Out of all creation God takes notice of me!

What are some things in America that we take for granted?

We should be grateful for the freedom we experience.

Our freedom here in America is just a faint expression of the freedom we can find in Christ.

You don't experience how grateful we should be for our freedom....until you visit a communist nation.

For us Americans to begin just with the fact that we're free.

Freedom in America is just a slim glimmer of what we experience in Christ

Pastor's Circle - Sam Shaw

Sam Shaw has been a pastor for years. Ten months ago he planted the Orchard Fellowship, a church in Memphis, TN. Shaw shared about his church's emphasis on worship.


I want to talk about passionate worship today. What is passionate worship?

What we mean by that is engaged, wholehearted, from the heart. Worship is something that engages not only the mind, but the emotion and the will.

Somebody said worship is like a play...God is the audience and we are responding to Him.

It is God-ward and it is heartfelt.

Aren't there many manners of worshiping?

I couldn't agree more.

If you feel like raising your hands, that's a biblical example of worship.  Silence is an example of a means of worship. 

Passionate worship - engages my body, my heart, my mind in worship.

What else does the Orchard do to promote worship?

We teach on worship.

We do communion once a month.

I try to speak to the heart and the mind. I try to leave a takeaway for people to actually do something.

Serving the Lord is worship.

What kind of musical approach do you do?

Our worship will typically be contemporary.

I want worship to be accessible to as many people as possible.

Far more than having people sing to us, we try to get involved singing with us about the Lord.

Do you have to realize at some point that you can't please everybody?

Absolutely. It takes all kinds of churches to meet all kinds of people.

What I'm saying is, we will include a hymn...but rather than simply just being hard-driving rock-and-roll...we vary the pace, we vary the kind of instrumentation that is used. Anything we can do to engage the people there.

What's your view on different styles for different services?

What we have are two services...but they're all alike.

The reality is, often it's not an exact replica.

I say, if God leads you, stop, give a testimony.

I think there needs to be some freedom. That requires some trust between the worship pastor and senior pastor.

How do you help people carry an attitude of worship throughout the week?

I have to do it myself. I have to model it.

If you're eating in a restaurant, we ask the waitress, "We're Christians, is there anything I can pray with you about?"

Several weeks ago, a waitress just broke down crying, and said I can't believe this. No one's ever asked to pray with me before. That's worship.

There are always barriers between us and how God wants us to live. What are some of those barriers?

I think just busyness.

We're distracted, just flat-out busyness, mindlessness.

I think lack of vision, lack of a sense that God could use me. Sometimes sheer sadness.

Those are the barriers that come to my mind right now. On Sunday morning, if there's anything I have to do, it's praying.

Practicing the presence of God is a discipline that I read about many, many years ago.

"I think a lot of people go through religious life on the cheap."

 Dr. Kevin Baxter, pastor of Foundry Methodist Church in Great Bend, Kansas, talks about his new sermon series, Religion on the Cheap.

Your newest sermon series is called, "Religion on the Cheap" what exactly is that?

I have a truck and the back taillight was falling off. And instead of going in and getting a new headlight, I did the cheap thing - I put it on with tape.

I think a lot of people go through religious life on the cheap.

When we try to start to compare it to the Bible, we realize it falls far short of what we're made for, of what we're called to be.

It's a series that's going to focus on different aspects of our religious life.

Maybe you've got a good biblical reference about religion on the cheap.

In Ecclesiastes 5, Solomon talks about coming in to worship.

Just in my own prayer life, I'm starting to realize that I take for granted the presence of God.

If I were in my office, and someone wanted to come into my office, they would knock, and I would say come on in.

I don't honor God enough. I don't respect him enough.

When I was a little kid, I would have to ask permission to leave the table. But when we're praying, we just say, "oops, I gotta go."

Solomon talks in Ecclesiastes 2 about how he had everything, but had missed the most important thing - God. Don't we do that?

I think we do it all the time.

The world is always pushing stuff at us. The world is always wanting us to say, "It's okay to do this."

It's very difficult....to live a holy life in a world that's fallen and likes it.

How have you lived religion cheaply?

Just praying - doing it quickly.

I could kick myself how many times I'm just not spiritually ready for worship.

It happens all the time when all the sudden I want to help someone, just give them a few bucks here, rather than investing my life in them.

Jesus doesn't call me to that. He calls me to live like Him.

I think it's the stuff of religiosity, the outward effect of it, but we forget there's an inner thing that God needs to do.

Yeah.

I think for myself to realize that it's not about me; it's about God.

It's a hard thing to get me out of the way.

It's so easy to get tangled up in ourselves, in our things, in our comfort.

If we were going to seek some practical antidotes to religion on the cheap, what would you suggest?

I think the top thing that keeps coming to me at this point is remember who God is.

We need to be respectful of Him that He is God.

And our lives are His.

And what He says He wants from us, He wants from us.

If you keep in mind that, I think it will help us to give what He wants.

Let me ask you a question. How important is it for people who have serious spiritual lives to have someone to hold them accountable?

I would say that they're absolutely necessary.

How do we hold ourselves accountable? Anyone who's left alone with a position of power will abuse it.

It's going to take people who love us enough to say, 'Hey look, you're wrong here.'

"The reality is, as a human being, he very much needed to pray like we did"

Joseph Parker, senior pastor of Trinity AME Church, discusses the power and priority of prayer.


Everybody has some things they do that help them to prayer. I'd love to know personally, what are some things that help with a dynamic, personal prayer life?

Well first of all, it helps us to model our prayer lives after Jesus.

The reality is, as a human being, he very much needed to pray like we did.

As you referred to it a moment ago, spiritual warfare is all around us.

When you're in warfare, you have to function differently than you do in times of peace.

It's good for us to pray, "Lord, anoint me with the Spirit of prayer today."

Not only having a season of prayer in the morning, but also praying throughout the day.

What are some practical suggestions you'd give to someone who wants to start praying?

In Matthew chapter 6, we find the Lord's prayer.

Our prayer life should be a lot more beyond the Lord's prayer.

I believe couples should pray every single day as husband and wife.

Spending time, praising and worshiping God.

Believers should regularly pray for the president, the vice-president, and leaders in our nation.

We're told to pray for those in authority!

We should pray for our family, pray for those around us.

Take to to talk to God, asking him for wisdom and guidance.

I think it's very important to make prayer practical.

Are there any practical prayer guides that you could point people to?

It's called, "Praying in Victory."

It gives guidance, it gives a specific prayer for government, praying for family, praying for children.

I like to encourage that guide.

Also God's word itself.

The prayer of Jabez is a prayer that has become more famous...but it's a prayer found in 1 Chronicles chapter 4 verse 9 and 10.

You can pray the ten commandments, for example.

It's a good guide to take the word of God and pray the word of God.

Have you found that we're praying too much for things and not praising enough in prayer?

At the forefront as we get started in prayer on a day-by-day basis.

It's good for us to spend time with the world in whatever mood we may be in...but praise and worship should be a critical part of our prayer life.

Very few churches that I've noticed...prayer meeting....

I'm not sure if I'd call it a flaw.

Something that I have in my church has been very helpful....we have a prayer line.

It's a way to encourage prayer, but also to pray corporately.

It is a way to keep prayer going and to pray with one another.

Have you ever been a part of something that's citywide prayer?

I think it's definitely a good thing.

There's no such thing as praying too much.

Prayer can always make a good thing better and a difficult thing better.

We hear the tragedy of prayer getting put out of school, but I think if we pray in our homes, that can fill the void.

It's good for parents to really make it a goal to pray with their children every day.

"The future was set by mobilizing normal people"

Steve Addison serves as the Director for Christian Resource Ministries in Australia. Addison came on the show today to talk about a book he recently wrote Movements That Change the World: Five Keys to Spreading the Gospel.      

Describe to us a movement that changed the world.

Probably one of my favorites in church history is the movement that came out of England under John Wesley - the Methodist movement.

You talk about several keys to revival movements. The first is a  white hot faith. Talk to us about that.

My daughter gave me a print that I hang over my desk of the Apostle Paul on the Damascus road, and he's in the dust.

That one encounter that he had with Christ changed him forever.

He became the greatest leader in our faith apart from Jesus himself. But it began with a powerful encounter with God through His Son Jesus.

Do people get white hot from an encounter? Or does it evolve over time?

There are key crisis moments for individual founders.

But they also build into their lives...spiritual disciplines. John Wesley had a number of key encounters with God, but he also learned to build a disciplined movement.

It's the crisis moment...and it's also the disciplines we build into our lives.

You talk about this second key to spreading the gospel. That is, committing to the cause. How did they challenge people?

I have a couple of boys well over six-foot tall. They play a whole range of sports. They're continually being pursued by coaches...and there are very high demands made upon them, but they love it.

Movements that changed the world are similar. They have a cause.

They can be quite demanding, but because the movement has caught their imagination.

Committed people change the world.

Is that commitment future-oriented?

Yes.

It often starts with discontent.

The third element beyond that future-oriented cause is that people take action.

The fourth key is rapid mobilization.

Movements often have that balance between freedom and appropriate control.

The reason there is such a high level of Christian commitment in the United States compared to other European nations is the Methodist and baptist efforts on the frontier.

Now the well-educated, well-trained clergy didn't see a need to go to the frontier. But the future was set by mobilizing normal people.

Could such a movement happen like this today?

They're happening all over the world.

They're happening in the developing world.

Places like Africa and South America.

"Part of the problem with a lot of men is that they don't know what a real man is anymore"

Gil McKee, Senior Pastor of the First Baptist Church of Tuscaloosa, joined the Pastor's Circle today to talk about fatherhood in light of God the Father.


If we're talking Fatherhood of God. What are some cues we can take from God on fatherhood?

What an awesome subject.

I was fortunate to be raised in a home with a godly dad, which made it easy for me to think of the concept of a loving, heavenly Father.

But not everybody has that.

For a person who's brought up in a home like that to embrace a heavenly father who loves the son unconditionally is a difficult concept for them.

I guess it was always my goal to do everything I could do to reflect the heavenly Father, so my kids could embrace Him.

What are some of the key things that can happen to ensure our kids desire to follow God?

Obviously first of all lead our children to a faith in Christ by staying in the Word.

Be the kind of consistent example in every situation and circumstance in life.

When we mess up to be able to say, look, I messed up.

Just to be transparent and authentic in our relationships with our children.

How important is holy action in the lives of our kids?

I remember times when my kids were growing up, doing missions together. We would go to our neighborhood and help out.

There are so many different ways that your children can get involved with ministry alongside you.

I don't think you can place a value on that.

What are a couple things for dads to do better on?

Our dads need to be spending time with their kids.

Unfortunately too many dads are trying to make that extra dime.

Secondly, I think our kids need to see authenticity in fathers.

You know how we are as dads - egos. It's hard to say, "I was wrong" to anyone, especially our children.

I just think that's huge.

How can we love our wives better?

Number one to be committed to our wives.

To be the kind of husband we need to be for our kids to hear us say, I love you.

Just treating them as Christ would treat the church.

If we just follow that pattern, love our wives as Christ would love the church.

Even if you're at vocational ministry...to remember that ministry begins at home with our wives and with our children.

How frustrated should we get when our children don't end up quite like we imagined they would?

Well obviously I think part of the process is to train them early on that their responsibility is to their heavenly father.

At some point we have to recognize, "Hey, I've done everything I'm able to do." Then we have to let them go and let the Father do in their lives everything he wants to do in them.

That's one of the toughest steps - to let them go.

There are no easy answers for parents who go through that.

All of us go through times when we see our children make wrong choices.

At the end of the day, you're exactly right, their free moral agency is the same as ours.

Give us a tip or two about how we can encourage men today.....

I think part of the problem with a lot of men is that they don't know what a real man is anymore.

I think to just go back with men and remind them what God expects of us as men.

God's not someone up there just waiting on them to make a mistake. He wants to partner with them.

"God is saying to Africa, you need to rise and go... to the ends of the earth"

Dr. Jerry Horner joined the Pastor's Circle today from South Africa. With him, was George Mosima, a South African pastor. (Dr. Horner's answers are in regular font and George Mosima's answers in italicized.)

What are you doing in South Africa?

The Lord is moving mightily all over Africa.

Here in South Africa particularly, there has been such a growth.

There are new churches beginning every day.

I have with my a pastor who knows more about that than I.

Why is the church growing in Africa unlike other world? 

I think there is such a mighty revival in Africa.

It is the Lord's doing.

We just think that the hand of the Lord is moving so mightily.

Prayer. How big of a role does prayer play in revival?

No doubt about it.

We have always believed in the power of prayer.

Praying in the morning, praying during the day.

Some people take time off work to go to their churches and pray.

We believe that God moves even as we pray.

When someone knows the Lord Jesus Christ as savior, why does it happen?

For the most part, what we see...we encourage a lot of people to invite their friends, but also to live that life.

As a result of that, people want to know what happened to you.

What does Africa need from America right now?

Well I can agree with you, Matt. The day of the old concepts of missions has passed.

We have Africa sending out missionaries now.

There are hundreds and hundreds of African missionaries all over the world.

I think we need genuine men from God who believe in the power of prayer.

We need people who uphold the principles of God.

I believe that God is raising up men and women of God who are going all over the world.

I think God is saying to Africa, you need to rise and go to Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.

I've been told that Africa need more education and discipleship.

That's a fair assumption.

As you can imagine, Africa for the most part is undeveloped.

So you will find a lot of pastors still needing a lot of training material.

What are some of the problems you're going to face?

It's known all over the world. Leadership is a problem in Africa.

Sometimes we think since we've been given authority, we think we need to be tyrants.

Somebody said that everything rises and falls on leadership.

When I was in Kenya, someone told me that there were 300 cults in that nation alone. Does Africa struggle with synchretism?

I've been in many countries of Africa, and there are still hangovers from the pagan gods.

This is why they need the true teachings of God.

In the South African context, we still have part of our society that believes in these ritual, pagan ideas...where you have people who practice voodoo.

"Once the home is put back together, then have ministry come out of that"

dDr. Jeffrey Klick is pastor of Hope Family Fellowship in Kansas City. Klick has authored several books, including Generational Impact, which was the subject of today's interview.

It sounds like your church takes seriously the family. Give us an overarching view of what y'all are doing.

We've taken a different approach to ministry.

My first 11 years I was a pastor, I spent in a traditional manner.

I watched the parade of young people walking away.

This was really frustrating to me, because we were spending millions and millions of dollars.

Once the home is put back together, then have ministry come out of that.

We encourage families to get their act together at home, then minister together.

There's all kinds of things going...and explosion of ministry that isn't regulated or done by the church per se.

How are you training families to do this?

Well we have a vision statement...of what we're trying to accomplish with this church.

If your Christianity isn't working in your home, don't export it.

Since we're not an activity-oriented church, there's more time for me...to invest in people's lives.

Let's make disciples and start with the people under our own roof.

I look at every Sunday's sermon as 52 counseling sessions with my congregation.

How do you minister to singles?

We have a lot of single people.

The scripture says that God places lonely people in families.

Isolating the singles often to their own little world isn't a real environment.

So we encourage our older singles to integrate into what the church is doing and what it's about.

We don't isolate anyone. You lose a lot of cross-generational pollenization...when you isolate people.

We encourage them to serve, not just at our body, but there are parachurch organizations around the world.

Do you teach these families how to have devotions together, how to discipline?

Certainly. And we'll do a variety of things.

There's an awful lot of relationship building going on.

There's a tremendous amount of teaching and role modeling going on.

You write in your book about "generational warfare." What do you mean by that?

The Bible is very clear that we have an enemy who wants to destroy.

If I were the devil, the first thing I would try to do is destroy the family.

If we're unaware...that the enemy wants to destroy the family, we won't be prepared.

We're in a battle, we're in a war.

Dating or courtship. What's the difference?

Dating is what most of us grew up with.

You try somebody out...and when you break up, you must move on.

We tend to favor the other model which is don't get involved with someone until you're ready for marriage.

How do you find that girl of yours a man?

You won't. God is sovereign.

If you have a daughter, there are going to be some young men who are interested in your daughter.

Ideally, they would come talk to you.

God is the one who puts relationships together.

Ministry Spotlight - The Salvation Army

 Today's Ministry Spotlight: Major George Hood describing how the Salvation Army is an integrated ministry, and the effect that it's having.

We know that the Salvation Army is a church and a charity, so what is it really?

It's really an integrated ministry.

Some people say we're a charity. Others say we're a church, but the truth is when you're doing it right, there's no difference.

We integrate our ministry and our theology to the point that we  want to meet the needs of people and open up their eyes to the truth.

Is there a problem with what you do in accepting money from the government?

Our practice of accepting government money for contract work.

The important element is that you can't use those government funds to purchase hymnbooks.

There are experiences where government bodies come in and say you have to take this picture of Jesus down or you have to hid these Bibles.

So it's worked out okay. There have been hotbeds of dispute...but by and large...we've been able to accept government contracts, do our work, and not apologize for who we are.

What does most of the money go to?

Most of the money goes to reaching out to the poor and the needy.

People need the basic necessities of life.

I would say that the bulk of the funds that are donated to the Salvation Army are used to feed, shelter, and clothe needy families.

We run about 140 residential treatment centers for men and women, helping them to get through addictions.

The story of grace is repeated over and over through hundreds of thousands of men and women.

And of course Christmas.

Those are the three primary areas that you can focus on and we do extremely well.

Is there more of investing in people's lives than ever before?

Absolutely.

We introduced parenting classes, we introduced ways they could budget. Then you begin to see ways that change can start taking place in their lives.

We believe now that you have to fix bad habits and change lives.

If we can really get a family activated in this integrated ministry of social service...that's when we really see lives being changed.

We love what you do, we just wish more people knew that you're on-site first with the most.

We want to be an organization that's recognized as doing the most good for the most people.

We don't always get the most ink out of it. We don't always get the most television coverage out of it.

It's a healthy debate.

We're not in it to win a contest.

We want to bring the simplicity of the Gospel in a very practical way.

People are suffering. We're looking at it intensely right now in Joplin, MO.

We're always the first ones on site, no matter what the disaster is.

Look at 9/11. People were gone after months. We were there until the very end of that.

We know what we do. We would love to get more press out of it.

But you know what? It's okay.

We don't ever want to be defined by the media as a disaster organization.

Again, as we integrate our services, meeting practical needs in practical ways.

Marriage is "absolutely essential to the success of any nation"

Dr. Rick Scarborough, Founder and President of Vision America on marriage and culture. 


How importance is marriage to the Kingdom of God and our nation?

It's absolutely essential to the success of any nation.

There's a passage in the old testament that says a cord of two strands is not easily broken. A cord of three strands can't be broken.

When the two are separated..they become easily broken.

I'm not sure if the church has stood up for heterosexual marriage in the past.

I can't think of one thing that the church has done a good job of in the past fifty years, but certainly not marriage.

Why don't we go to great expense for the training for marriage?

Not only do you focus on marriage, but you focus on the components of marriage.

You work on the components as well as the joint effort as well as seminars.

The first and most important thing is that you go back to Malachi, God hates divorce. He hates divorce, because He loves people.

We've worked so hard on self-esteem that we've forgotten about sin.

How important is it to train with gender specificity?

I don't think it's the only thing, but it's one of the ingredients.

Most men don't know how to be godly people, so they aren't godly husbands.

If we don't get our marriages together, will we suffer serious consequences?

Yes, sir. We're suffering those consequences.

One of the reasons we have so much conflict in the church is that there's so much conflict at home.

Not until we get this family thing straightened out...will we ever begin to grow as church as as a consequence as a nation.

If you were to give a few pieces of advice to the males listening, what would you say?

I would say simply, your concentration simply needs to be on being a godly person.

We don't need to learn to be better husbands. We need to be godly people.

Yes, there are certain things that we do, but what's more important is who we are.

Advice for the Women listening?

I joke and say, "If my wife is spirit-filled all the time, I won't have to be and we'll have harmony."

The worst thing a woman can do is...beat him over the head with how godly he is, and then lay blame for her behavior at his behavior.

The worst thing a wife can do is point out a man's faults and failures. The best thing a woman can do is pray.

The scripture says it's better to live on a rooftop than with a railing woman.

The man has to pursue being a godly man. The woman has to pursue being a godly woman.

What are the barriers between the church doing better at marriage?

We've got to take a knife spiritually and stab it into the heart of church growth.

We've gotten so busy with the mechanics of how to grow a church that we've forgotten it's Jesus' church.

We're not going to build strong and healthy families unless we stab a knife into the heart of this false god.

If you do the right things and godly things, growth will follow.

Matthew 6:33. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all these things will be added to you.

How should a pastor respond to Anthony Weiner?

Dr. Steve Blakemore sheds some light on how pastors should react to current events and use them to teach others.


What should a pastoral response be to an issue like Anthony Weiner?

I think a pastor's got a responsibility to do a couple things when it comes to a news item that deals with that particular issue.

I think the first and foremost thing pastors oughta do should be is to teach the people.

I think that our culture has become so obsessed with sex. It's no longer about just pleasure anymore. So many people are told to express themselves through this.

The Church highly values sex as a gift from God.

It's not that we're prudes; we see the beauty and glory of our sexuality.

The Bible on one knee, a newspaper on the other. Is that a good way to start the day?

I would think that a better way to start the pastoral life is the Bible, soaking up the Word of God.

As a pastor you read the Bible, not just for your own personal edification, but for other people as well, then go to the newspaper.

One danger if we start off with the paper on one knee and the Bible on the other, then we start to read the Bible in light of the news.

So many hear about that (Weiner) instead of hearing about that in light of our lives, it's just a chance to rail against someone that's failed. Or some people say that we shouldn't judge.

That's wrong.

Allow the Bible to shape us, then encounter the current events.

When natural disasters happen, is that a good time to address some tough issues?

I would think that they could be, because when those things happen, everyone has a question on their mind, "Why do we live in a world like this?"

What does it mean to say God is sovereign? What does it mean to say God's in control?

What it means is that God is going to save the world....and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Scandals in the church. Good opportunities for sharing the Gospel?

Once again, it is if we present it correctly.

One thing that kills me is when...a Christian leader fails and a Christian's  response is this: Christians aren't perfect, they're just forgiven.

But if we say, "There's no excuse to be made. That falls short of the glory of God....but we all need a Savior."

I think in those kind of moments, as long as Christians don't minimize or make excuses for the failings of Christian pastors....I think it does offer us an opportunity to speak about the gospel with people.

Moderation "makes us lazy"

Mark Durie has written a list of twelve harmful ideas and beliefs that are prevalent in Western society. Today he addressed #9: The belief that extremism is the problem and moderation is the solution.


There's a belief that extremism is always bad and moderation is always good. Why is that wrong?

That's the idea that if you're kind of vanilla somewhere in the middle...you must be safe.

The problem with that is that it short circuits the idea of thinking through ideas.

The problem is, when we apply this idea of extreme versus moderation to religion, we stop thinking.

It makes us lazy, I think.

What do Christians tend to moderate?

I think you end up just going with the flow.

You end up accepting the status quo.

Whatever are the values of society, you get conformed.

If we aren't salt and light in our culture, what happens?

It loses it's flavor.

Ditch the whole talk of moderate versus extreme, we're supposed to be true Christians.

Look at the way Jesus speaks, He didn't say be a moderately good person.

If we follow through with Jesus, we're going to have to change.

It becomes a sort of denial. You don't think you have to change.

It's not really what Jesus calls us to.

What's the hardest thing for the people in your congregation to change?

I think just setting aside, you might say, worldly ambitions.

It's the call of trying to be successful in your life.

Instead of trying to be successful in the eyes of the world around you, you think, "How can I be successful before God."

We have lots of distractions in our lives.

I think pressing the "off" button may be one of the most liberating acts we can do.

In the Bible they speak of gluttony, which can be food. But today we're stuck on technology.

In your blog, you mention Eric Hoffer's thesis. Explain.

Well his basic thesis is extremism is a personality type.

So a Nazi may become a Communist one day, and something else radical the next.

The problem with that, it denies the power of the actual idea. The real problem is the extreme personality.

That can cause us to be really lazy when we encounter bad ideas...it's really your attitude that makes all the difference.

Some ideas are really bad ideas and cause a lot of grief in the world.

I remember once I had a friend who came from Russia......and someone said Communism isn't that bad. He said, I've lived under it! Communism is a bad idea!

Saul went from being a radical persecutor of Christians to being a radical Christian. Is there an element of this that's personality based?

I think there is.

Clearly, some people are very committed, passionate people.

Often bad ideas have a grain of truth in them.  That's what makes them so appealing.

If you just focus on that personality issue, you'll miss the fact that when Paul did become a believer of Christ, it changed his life.

He didn't just change from one kind of extremist to another kind of extremist.

Pastor's Circle - Rurel Ausley

Rural Ausley, Lead Pastor of Niceville United Methodist Church, came into the Pastor's Circle to talk about the Holy Spirit.

Do we place enough emphasis on the Holy Spirit?

Probably not.

I know Francis Chan has a book out called Forgotten God, where he makes that same point.

We're going to start a sermon series, and talk about that - the Holy Spirit's ministry.

Why did we forget the Holy Spirit?

I don't know.

You and I came up a little differently, growing up in the '70's during the charismatic movement.

I think in the United States in the church...it's easier...we do stuff in the flesh, rather than depending on the movement of the Spirit.

How are we supposed to relate to the Spirit?

I know for me, Jesus said I'm going away...I try to think of it as Jesus' resurrected presence in us through the Holy Spirit is as real to us as He was when He walked on this earth.

Maybe we don't think much about the Spirit because that Spirit is not trying to draw attention to Himself.

Maybe so.

He teaches us what Jesus said. Reminds us of what Jesus did.

I think part of what the Holy Spirit does is try to give us a larger vision of what we could be.

What are some of the key things you're going to talk about what the Holy Spirit can be for them?

Well that's one of the things - that the Holy Spirit can give them a greater vision.

I want to teach them that the Holy Spirit can give them a deeper relationship with Jesus.

If you look at the disciples ministry before and after Pentecost, you can see that their effectiveness quotient went way higher.

The difference that that's going to make in effectiveness in ministry. We're not operating in the flesh. We're not trying to do our own thing...we're operating out of the power He gives to us.

I think it's boldness and courage.

When you look at the church as a whole, the church does not seem to be doing very well.

The majority of churches seem to be very small and dying.

Where is the marching forth like a mighty army?

Maybe he's right. Maybe we have forgotten about the Holy Spirit.

Or worse, maybe we're ignorant.

The United Methodist's annual conference is coming up. Is the presence of the Holy Spirit important there?

Absolutely.

I feel like we have a theological issue in the United Methodist Church.

What we need is a theological understanding that God has come, and he wants to do something in our life. He wants to make us Holy.

If we were doing those things, it would bring revival, and make a total difference.

What's the barrier between us and the Holy Spirit?

I think it probably scares us sometimes.

We prefer things more intellectual, more cerebral, more understandable, more concrete.

Sometimes when things happen through the Spirit, it's gets a little bit beyond our control.

You don't know what's going to happen next?

There's a fear there, if I surrender all.

There's a fear that He'd do something distasteful if we surrender.

If more people would surrender, I think He would do incredible things.

You have two people. One has the Spirit, the other doesn't. What's the difference?

The difference is how they're living out their lives, particularly.

He deepens their lives with the fruit of the Spirit.

The difference between those two you mentioned is night and day.

Pastor's Circle - Chip Henderson

Chip Henderson is pastor of Pinelake Baptist Church. Pinelake is a four-campus church that is experiencing great growth. He answered questions about evangelism and why Pinelake launch satellite campuses.


Is the great Commission relevant to today?

Oh, absolutely Matt.

Those were the marching orders to the church.

Jesus was, of course, saying those words to the disciples.

But they apply to all of us.

What do you find as one of the premiere ways to invite people into a relationship w/Christ?

It's really life on life.

In the early expansion of the church...when you have mass conversions.

But as you watch the church expand...you begin to see it becomes almost one on one.

For us, what we're finding in Mississippi at Pine Lake is life on life...that is the way that Christianity is best, I guess, spread or shared.

What are the characteristics of an effective evangelist?

Not everybody has the gift of evangelism. Some people are naturally gifted at evangelism.

I would say, Matt, that every Christ follower has the responsibility to share how Christ has changed them.

You go to work or school or the tennis club, and you just share the relationship you have and the hope that you have.

In a day when people want to argue with religion, people cannot argue with what God is doing in your life.

Compassionate ministry seems to go along with evangelism. Do you find that to be the case today?

Oh absolutely.

You can't say we're going to be either, or.

Jesus called us to be both. What we're finding at Pinelake is that it's in the context of compassion ministry...we do what we do, because of the love of Christ that we have.

It's in meeting those needs that gives us a platform to speak into lives.

That's the best news that we can share. For us, Matt, it's not one or the other, it's both, and.

Why did you decide to become a multi-campus church?

Well, initially we had space issues.

Several months later, we began to look at our small group ministry...how many houses do we need to plan for in a neighboring county.

We found out we had a thousand people there.

So that began the expansion of multi-site for us.

It was a response...we found that God was at work.

We're just trying to help them be the church in their community.

Does it feel funny to show preaching on a screen?

Oh yeah. It's weird to say the least.

If you come to our main campus, most people watch the side screens anyway.

That has been, in our experience, the teaching on video has been the smallest obstacle to overcome.

Pastor's Circle - Johnnie Moore

Johnnie Moore, Campus Pastor for Liberty University, has written a book about how we as Christians can really live out our faith. On the Matt Friedeman Show Johnnie talked about how to do that and why it's so important.

Apparently you have a book coming out. Honestly. 

There's a lot of buzz about it, because it addresses hypocrisy.

It's why a lot of young people get turned off by the faith. 

What are the difficult things for us to live out? 

I think we as evangelicals get caught up on the big things. We don't drink, smoke, take drugs.  But for us, the enemy's been at us in a little more deceptive way.

He's been working on us on our belief system and our self righteousness.

While we have our salvation, we need to be about everyday relationship.  If I'm not talking to my wife everyday, I don't have much of a relationship with her.

What are the things that irritate the world with what we do or don't do? 

People out there who aren't part of our Christian club find it offensive when a pastor gets caught in his indiscretions.

But what annoys them more is when, on Sunday afternoon, the churches empty out and that single working mom is working her heart out at a restaurant, but wishes she didn't after all the church people come in and we are the poorest tippers in town. 

People judge Jesus based upon on behaviors and our attitudes.

How can we regain integrity? 

Christianity for 2,000 years has been a bottom up movement.

I think the integrity of the greater church is affected by the integrity of the individual believer.

Walk across the street and befriend the guy who scowls at you everytime you walk by.

We can never be perfect, but we should be honest....and apologize for when we fail.

Is part of the problem that people see us too ensconced in our churches? 

Yeah, totally.

But that has never been the DNA of the church.  We exist best outside the church and in the world. 

We are the only light of truth in a lot of ways, but it doesn't have to be delivered harshly.

We have been loved, and so we love.

Do Millennials have a sense of integrity better than the rest of us? Or are they just talk? 

Unfortunately, the Christian church ought to be more focused on getting Christians to behave like Christians.

A lot of the Millennials are saying, "Be hot or be cold."...too many of our churches have a form of godliness without the power.

I'd say that every one of us know a young person, and the best we can do is make sure they see an authentic Christianity, an honest Christianity.

If you were to put your finger on three things that could help us live lives of integrity, what would those be? 

First of all, I would say you've got to start with the basics.

You cannot just read the Bible like an academic textbook. You have to inculcate yourself with it.

You have to be around other Christians...to struggle through your doubts about faith.

Make sure you're in a rich Christian community.

Christianity was always meant to be lived outside. It was never meant to be lived inside a bubble.

As quick as we can, we need to leave the sacred halls of the church and go out.

Pastor's Circle - Ted Cunningham

Today in the Pastor's Circle: Ted Cunningham, author of a brand-new book entitled Young and in Love and pastor of Woodland Hills Family Church in Branson, MO. Cunningham talked about why people should get married younger, which is the focus of his new book.

 

The trend of marrying later has taken over in this country. Is that a good thing? 

Absolutely not.

 

Time magazine had an article last month that said 39% of Americans think marriage is unnecessary.

Promote younger marriage? 

Oh absolutely.

 

We had someone come up to us not long ago and ask to do purity classes. I said, "We don't do purity classes, we do marriage classes."

 

We don't want our children growing up fearing love and fearing marriage.

 

Most people want their independence far longer than they need it.

 

They want to live the good life free from the responsibility of marriage.

 

Then, they're also telling us that if they marry too early, they're worried they'll end up with their parents' marriage.

How do you promote marrying younger? 

You start in adolescence.

 

There have been five milestones for growing up in any culture.

 

In every previous generation you did those five milestones in a very short time if not simultaneously.

 

We've put those milestones on a 10-15-year track.

 

The first thing you need to be doing is making sure your kids leave home as adults.

 

Marriage is a responsibility that we begin preparing kids for as teenagers.

 

Teenagers need to learn responsibility more than privilege as they begin to leave home.

Do people ask you for a biblical case for it? 

The first place I go is Genesis 2:24....for this reason a man will leave his father and mother.

 

Nothing will make you more like Jesus than marriage.

 

The problem with a lot of our marriages today is that marriage is turning our children into adults.

Is there a difference between evangelicals and the secular world on marrying age? 

It depends on a lot of factors.

 

The average age is 28 for men and 26 for women today.

 

A lot of Christian parents look at their children who are going off to college, and they say, "No way you're ready to get married."

 

What I tell Christian parents is, you had your  child take the college entrance exam eight time....you've given them everything to try to get that good start, except for the tools they need to be great fathers, great husbands, great wives, and great mothers. 

What's your story on marriage? How old were you? 

I was 22 and my wife was 21.

 

It has nothing to do with age.

 

There are a lot of books out there that are challenging kids to wait until they're 25.

 

Age has nothing to do with marriage. It's all about maturity.

 

I am exhausted with the 33-year-old who is focused on getting the next level of Halo.

What age would you say is too young? 

In the book I put there are necessary delays to marriage like high school.

 

I think early 20's is the time to think about marriage.

 

If the trend of late marriage continues, we're going to wipe out one of our greatest assets - grandparents.

 

Grandparents have been an asset to our country and to our culture.

Ministry Spotlight - A Way Out

George Kuykendall, who is Executive Director of Citizens for Community Values (CCV), joined the show to discuss how CCV's "A Way Out" program has helped free more than 300 women from the sex-for-sale industry.

 

You got involved. Tell me why. 

When I grew up, I played with all girls.

 

Then I had three daughters. I've been to more tea parties than most women.

 

So I wanted to protect women.

  

I just thought I needed to do something to pay back all God had given me.

You have something called the Way Out program to help ladies leave the sex industry. How do you do it? 

I don't think most people realize that the ladies in topless bars and prostitution, don't want to be there.

 

One thing that runs through all of these women we've only had 5 or 6 who weren't sexually abused as a child.

 

Out of the 300 women we've had only about 3 of them didn't hear enough to know the Lord. They weren't here long enough.

There needs to be a godly mentor and support system for these ladies. Talk to me about this. 

First of all, the ladies who do this are God's angels here on earth, because it's not an easy job.

 

We have about 20-25 women who do this.

 

Their whole job is just to take care of these women just like they were her mother.

 

We do provide everything they need to get to get back into real life.

Safe living environment. What do you do? 

Well, we house them.

 

That's important, because we need to get the women away from their previous way of life.

 

We do provide all of their housing needs and their electricity. 

One of the things you talk about are Bible studies. What are in these Bible studies? 

They do them every Tuesday night. Dinner then a Bible study.

 

The mentors teach the classes.

 

We do go to a lot of the different religious teachings that come to Memphis. It's a long haul.

Education, job skills training? 

Some of the ladies are in college.

 

We help them get their GED.

 

Most cases the relationship of these women was not very good with their mother.

 

The reason for that was that the boyfriend sexually abused the daughter.

 

Every one (of the women) needs something different.

 

Even if it's a help volunteer position, the women they work with will see that they have changed and give them jobs. 

How big are the addictive issues in their lives? 

I've had a hard time understanding that when I first started.

 

We had a psychiatrist on our board of directors...he said you're not talking to a 30-year-old women, you're talking to a 9-year-old kid.

 

He told me that the people he normally treats are 20% sick and 80% well, but the ladies we're dealing with are exactly the opposite - 80% sick and 20% well.

Do these ladies have kids? 

1.5 children per women is what is amounts to. Some of them we take into the program if they're young.

Pastor's Circle - Chris Lohrstorfer

Today in the Pastor's Circle: Chris Lohrstorfer, pastor of Hinds Independent Methodist Church. Compassionate ministry and its effect on the Church was on the agenda.

 

Is doing compassionate ministry a liberal thing? 

If it's liberal, then I'd say Jesus was a liberal.

 

I can't separate that kind of compassionate ministry from Jesus and what He is doing. 

Are both giving and compassionate ministry important? 

I think they both are necessary.

 

If you're a missionary going to a foreign field...you need the cash.

 

I don't think it's enough for a church to give out money. You need to get your hands dirty.

What happens in the life of a congregation when they go out to the untouchables? 

When people get involved hands and feet-wise, I see grace.

 

I've never seen it work the opposite in someone's life.

 

I think it's absolutely imperative spiritually.

 

When you're giving out to other people, that's necessary to sanctification.

I wonder if we don't get more hungry for righteousness when we serve. 

When you get up and go here to exercise, you feel like you don't want to.

 

But the more you do it, the more you want to exercise.

 

Besides expending calories...your body gets hungry for exercise. 

Are there periods of revival, when there's no compassionate ministry? Can you fly without that wing? 

If you can, it wouldn't be very far.

 

There's always a time of prayer...there always is connected with it this thing of reaching out.

 

Revival always works its way out into society.

Possible to think of Wesley revival without compassionate ministry? 

There were people converted and sanctified.

 

The real aspect of the Wesley revival was they built orphanages, helped people.

 

It transformed society. That's what the Wesley revival is.

What happens to a church that decides we're not going to get involved in our community? 

Eventually it closes.

 

It becomes protective.

 

There's a reversal of mentality. You're not thinking let's go out and change lives, you're thinking let's keep them out. 

As a pastor or key laymen, how do you get your church to start reaching out? 

I think you oughta be preaching about it.

 

Just get a couple people involved.

 

It becomes catchy.

 

You're not going to start with 60, but you could start with 6.